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November 28, 2007

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Patrick Mueller

If GOOG plays their cards right, and have a desire to do so, Dalvik can serve as the "better CLR than CLR" to the CLR's "better Java than Java". Not just on embedded. From MS's POV, they will have just replaced their current competitor, Java, with a different one.

theuniblogger

I have to completely disagree with you.
1. MS's biggest threat is not a software platform its the OS itself. MS .NET will only work on windows mobile, where as the Java platform is ported on most other OS's. And If you look at the current heading of mobile, more of it is moving towards *nix based OS's.
2. I find it very hard to believe that google will ever give MS such an easy opening, and will make android compliant with standard j2me. Its inevitable, in order for android to be successful they need to attract developers, and developers that are developing for 90% of mobile with j2me, will not want to rewrite just for android. This is a MS tatic, not one i see google will be using.
3. MS should be very afraid of android. MS's biggest foothold on the mobile market is in the strong grasp on the enterprise such as email. If google can create a successful open platform that works with the enterprise, you will see ms's foothold on the enterprise market dwindle. One huge complaint of the iPhone was bad outlook integration. If google solves this on there platform look out MS.

Doug Squires

I'm an engineer... .Net, Java, C++, C, Assembly, Basic, Pascal, SQL, Propeller Spin (for chrissakes), etc, etc, etc - I solve problems on whatever platform is put in front of me... lacking a platform, i'll push out an ntsc signal on a microcontroller and create a character map... lacking that - i'll make furniture.

point being: who needs a team? technologies, platforms, corporations, civilizations... transitory.

scott

Android is not a fork of JME. If Android replaces JME then the platform will be more unified. More of my JSE code is compatible with Android which has better support for JSE core APIs than JME. I don't care what kind of VM my Java code runs on. Why should I?

This was an embarrassingly weak attack and use of FUD. Go back to your real job.

James Strachan

Hey Richard! Long time no see!

I totally hear you; but I find myself taking the 100% opposite position. As what Google doing is totally different to what MS did in the early days of Java - which really was an embrace and extend strategy.

All Google is doing is totally implementing a subset of the Java Platform - not forking it or embracing & extending it which I see as a good thing for Java the ecosystem.

I posted a rather long response on my blog...
http://macstrac.blogspot.com/2007/11/net-should-be-certified-java-platform.html

Carl Rosenberger

As we have seen with Eclipse, competition and open source are great for progress and adoption. Just like IBM has created the strongest and liveliest development platform ever with Eclipse, I see Google doing the same for mobile application development with Android.

I have written a bit more on my blog under "
Why Android will start the mobile Tornado". Just click on my name to get there.

Ed Burnette has written a reply to your blog entry:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=473

He does have a point. JavaME already is highly fragmented, so what do you want to protect?

Android is a new chance for a strong and consistent standard. If we are lucky, IBM and Google will fix all the mistakes that Sun has made.

Markus

Hi,
IMHO you miss some important points here :
- Java has not yet played an important role as an environment for *serious* applications for cell phones.
- Integration with the OS, which is a crucial feature for cell phones, has never been a strength of Java
- "Java based" cellphones so far have not been a threat to Microsoft.
- Googles VM will be open source, Therefore you could still have different vendors for it.

I think Microsoft will have to react because license fees froms operating systems for cell phones may decline.

Regards,
Markus

Mack D. Male

Java is the platform to beat? Darling of the enterprise? Dominates the software development industry?

Ummm, no.

"Info-Tech's research identified that almost half (49 per cent) of all enterprises focus primarily on .NET with an additional 12 per cent focused exclusively on .NET. That is in comparison to only 20 per cent of enterprises that focus primarily on Java with a mere additional 3 per cent that standardize solely on it."

http://news.websitegear.com/view/29845

For years there has been research and studies that show that at the very least, .NET is as popular as Java (among developers, IT departments, etc.).

http://www.computerworld.com/developmenttopics/development/story/0,10801,100542,00.html

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2005/tc20051213_042973.htm

You're correct to say that Java is on the majority of phones by default, but to extrapolate that to the entire software development industry is just wrong.

I would argue that Microsoft doesn't worry about Java at all these days, certainly not like 2000 or 2001.

Microsoft simply doesn't need Android to help .NET. It's not Microsoft who should be celebrating, it's Sun who should be worrying.

Christian R. Conrad

You quote Maureen O'Gara, and think you have any credibility at all???

What's next, are you going to quote Rob and Laura too?

Henry S.

I don't know how technical you bloggers are, or think you are...but us programmers (the ones for whom platforms matter) know the difference between Java the language and Java the platform. For example, Javascript uses the Java language, but it doesn't bother anybody that it doesn't use the Java platform. If android is just some random API (like Javascript) that uses Java, the language, then it doesn't affect Java ME at all.

I would bet that Android can and will run Java ME on top of itself. The problem will be that Java ME won't run Android applications...but that shouldn't matter considering the difference in capabilities.

Rafael Laguna

Richard,

yes and no...

yes: Androids' java is a fork (started by IBM/Harmony)
no: .Net doesn't get better because it's bound to MS platforms
and no: as long as Google keeps Android compatible
but yes: it *nix'es up Java and that is dangerous (it introduces the problems Unix and Linux has between their versions and distributions incompatibilities)

2cents
Rafael

jim

very interesting article. as were the reply posts.

http://www.golfnorwich.com/

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